Ep. 451: Willow Creek’s Dave Dummit, Steven Furtick’s Elevation Church & the State of the Church
On today’s program, Willow Creek Pastor Dave Dummit announced this week he is stepping down as leader of the influential Chicagoland megachurch. Leaders have also named his successor. And, revenue is down for Steven Furtick’s Elevation Church, while in-person membership is flat. We’ll take a closer look at the church’s 2024 annual report. Plus, the state of the church—Barna Group released its new report showing men have outpaced women in church attendance, reversing a longstanding trend. We’ll have details.
But first, more churches are leaving what’s known as ‘the Network,’ led by Steve Morgan. Nearly half of the congregations that have been associated with a “Network” of churches overseen by Pastor Steve Morgan have either publicly announced their departure or removed any reference to the network from their websites.
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Kim Roberts, Bob Smietana, Shannon Cuthrell, Diana Chandler, Brittany Smith, and Christina Darnell.
A special thanks to Baptist Press for contributing material for this week’s podcast.
Until next time, may God bless you.
MANUSCRIPT:
FIRST SEGMENT
Warren:
Hello everybody. I’m Warren Smith, coming to you this week from Charlotte, North Carolina.
Natasha:
And I’m Natasha Cowden, coming to you from Denver, Colorado, and we’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast.
Warren:
On today’s program, Willow Creek Pastor Dave Dummit announced this week he is stepping down as leader of the influential Chicagoland megachurch. Leaders have also named his successor.
And, revenue is down for Steven Furtick’s Elevation Church, while in-person membership is flat. We’ll take a closer look at the church’s 2024 annual report.
Plus, the state of the church—Barna Group released its new report showing men have outpaced women in church attendance, reversing a longstanding trend. We’ll have details.
Natasha:
But first, more churches are leaving what’s known as ‘the Network,’ led by Steve Morgan.
Warren:
Nearly half of the congregations that have been associated with a “Network” of churches overseen by Pastor Steve Morgan have either publicly announced their departure or removed any reference to the network from their websites.
MinistryWatch began reporting about Morgan in 2022 when a watchdog group called “Leaving the Network” issued an eight-point “call to action,” including an independent investigation of the group.
Morgan, who was originally part of the Vineyard Association of Churches, left that group in 2006 and formed his own network. At one point, the network included 26 churches in the U.S., U.K., and Taiwan. Morgan is still the lead pastor of Joshua Church in Austin, Texas.
Natasha:
Why were churches leaving?
Warren:
One of the concerns that “Leaving the Network” has raised is that Morgan was arrested in 1987 for aggravated criminal sodomy of a minor, but his case was diverted. The group believes Morgan’s past has been concealed from members and leaders in the network of churches.
Natasha:
Eleven churches no longer appear to be affiliated with the Network. MinistryWatch reported about four — Isaiah Church, Vine Church, North Pines Church, and Hosea Church — last fall. Now seven more have indicated in some way that they are no longer part of the Network.
Warren:
- Brookfield Church in Athens, Ohio:
- Cedar Heights Church in State College, Penn.:
- Mountain Heights Church in Morgantown, W.V.:
- Oaks Church in Muncie, Ind.:
- South Grove Church in Athens, Ga.:
- Vida Springs Church in Gainesville, Fla.:
- Christland Church in College Station, Texas:
Natasha:
Next, Willow Creek’s Pastor steps down.
Warren:
David Dummitt, who became pastor of Willow Creek Church at the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, announced Sunday (March 23) that he is stepping down as leader of the influential Chicagoland megachurch.
Shawn Williams, the campus pastor of Willow Creek’s South Barrington, Illinois, location, will succeed Dummitt as senior pastor starting April 1. Dummitt will remain on staff until July 31 to help with the transition.
Dummitt’s departure comes as Willow Creek has largely rebounded from the shutdowns during the COVID-19 pandemic as well as the controversies generated by founding pastor Bill Hybels and accusations of sexual misconduct.
The church ended 2024 in the black, with its first budget surplus since 2019, according to a church spokesperson. In-person attendance for 2024 was up 16%, to 9,875 per weekend, with an additional 3,700 people viewing services live online.
Natasha:
Dummitt, who had pastored a Michigan megachurch before coming to Willow Creek, told RNS in 2020 that he knew restoring trust and a healthy culture at the church — which for decades was one of the nation’s largest and most influential congregations — would be a long process.
Warren:
The new pastor, Shawn Williams, is — like Dummitt — a graduate of Wheaton College, where he earned a master’s degree in theology. He served at megachurches in the Chicago suburbs and Las Vegas before coming to Willow Creek.
Natasha:
Next, an update from the state of Texas and NDAs.
Warren:
A bill to stop the use of nondisclosure agreements (NDA) to prevent sexual abuse victims from telling their stories has advanced in the Texas legislature.
On Wednesday, March 19, the Texas House Committee on Judiciary and Civil Jurisprudence voted unanimously to report House Bill 748 favorably to the full House of Representatives and recommend passage.
Natasha:
The bill, authored by Rep. Jeff Leach (R-Plano), is called “Trey’s Law” after Trey Carlock, a sexual abuse victim of Kanakuk Kamps’ employee Peter Newman. Carlock died by suicide after suffering in silence due to an NDA.
Warren:
His sister Elizabeth Carlock Phillips spoke to the committee in support of the bill, sharing how her brother endured a decade of abuse then signed a restrictive NDA that caused him to even question whether he should discuss details of his abuse with his therapist.
NDAs that take away a sexual abuse survivor’s voice and ability to tell their story are taking away their “path to healing,” she said.
Natasha:
So what’s next for this bill.
Before it is enacted as a law, the bill must pass the Texas House then move through a Senate committee and be approved by the Texas Senate before being signed by Texas Gov. Greg Abbott.
Natasha:
Warren, let’s take a quick break. When we return, the latest findings from Elevation Church’s 2024 annual report.
I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and we’ll have that story and much more, after this short break.
BREAK
SECOND SEGMENT
Natasha:
Welcome back. I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch podcast.
Next, the story we promised before the break.
Warren:
According to its annual report for 2024, Elevation Church led by Steven Furtick had less income in 2024 than it did in 2023.
Total revenue from tithes and offerings for the multi-campus megachurch was $91.35 million and the year-end offering brought in $10 million. This represents a decrease from the $108 million in tithes and offerings reported the previous year.
The church reported that the largest portion of its budget — $31.88 million or 35% — went to personnel expenses. The next largest expenditure was for central operations and ministries at $25.29 million or 28%.
Natasha:
According to its report, Elevation Church gave $12.16 million to outreach efforts in 2024.
Warren:
Elevation Church is based in Matthews, N.C. It has 19 total campuses—17 in the United States and two in Canada. The newest campus in Columbia, S.C., opened in December 2024. It also began construction projects on three campuses in 2024: Elevation Raleigh, Elevation Greenville, and Elevation Uptown.
The annual report claims weekly attendance at the various campuses is 17,373, only a slight increase of about 300 weekly attendees since last year.
Natasha:
Elevation Worship, the music arm of Elevation Church, has a wide reach with over 2.3 billion streams of its songs streamed across all platforms in 2024.
Warren
In June 2023, Elevation Church withdrew its affiliation with the Southern Baptist Convention, giving no specific reason about its departure.
Elevation Church is a member of the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, which lists its net assets at over $305 million.
Natasha:
What’s our next story?
Warren:
Former Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger has joined Gloo, the technology platform that serves churches and ministries, as its executive chair and head of technology.
Gelsinger has been an investor and board member for Gloo for 10 years, but now will take on the expanded role of leading the Gloo product and engineering efforts, including Gloo AI.
Gloo aims to help churches and ministries adopt technology to expand their reach, but it wants to use artificial intelligence as a “force for good.”
Natasha:
How do they plan on doing that?
Warren:
Gloo AI Chat is designed to protect children and families from harmful, unbiblical, or misleading content.
Natasha:
The Colorado-based company was founded in 2010 by Scott and Theresa Beck and currently claims to work with over 100,000 faith, ministry, and nonprofit leaders. It has been involved in the “He Gets Us” ad campaign designed to attract people to Christianity.
Warren:
In 2022, MinistryWatch reported about Gloo’s data mining to connect people exhibiting signs of crisis, stress, anxiety, divorce, depression, substance abuse, or grief with churches or ministries who might help them.
Last year, Gloo announced it had acquired two sister news sites from Christianity Today: Church Law & Tax and ChurchSalary. The Winter Jam concert series also used Gloo to connect concert attendees with local churches.
Natasha:
Warren, we’re going to take another break. When we return, our lightning round of ministry news of the week.
I’m Natasha Cowden, with my co-host Warren Smith. More in a moment.
BREAK
THIRD SEGMENT
Natasha:
Welcome back. I’m Natasha Cowden, with my co-host Warren Smith and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch Podcast.
Warren, we like to use this last segment as a sort of lightning round of shorter news briefs.
What’s up first?
Warren:
Salem Media Group’s 2024 annual report signals a major financial comeback for the Christian world’s only publicly traded media company.
The California-based firm made bold financial moves in 2024, drastically improving its bottom line after a challenging prior year. Salem not only reversed a $43.3-million net loss in 2023 into a $16.2-million net profit but also aggressively tackled its debt, eliminating long-term liabilities through a strategic buyback.
Salem is now returning to its talk-radio roots, pushing Christian preaching, commentary, and conservative political programs. In February, the company transferred its Salem Music Networks business to Christian FM Media.
Natasha:
What’s next?
Warren:
Men have outpaced women in church attendance the past three years, reversing a longstanding trend of more women in the pews that narrowed in 2016, Barna said in its 2025 State of the Church release, created in partnership with Gloo.
Women had outpaced men in attendance since 2000, then at 47% to 38%, before men began outpacing women in 2022, at 35% to 30%. In 2024, 30% of men were attending weekly, compared to 27% of women.
Several reasons could be driving the gender flip in attendance, researchers told Baptist Press, but cited none as definitive to any degree. Among them:
— Women are overwhelmingly responsible for homecare and childcare and increasingly work in the marketplace because of a rising cost of living.
— “More women are single today than ever before,” researchers said, “and many feel discouraged by the dating pool at church, as church attendees are more often married than not.”
— Researchers pointed to the lingering trauma of the COVID-19 pandemic and its shift on remote engagement in church and work.
— “A troubling number of Christian ministry leaders have publicly and egregiously fallen to sexual sin, which tends to make women in particular feel uncomfortable and unwelcome,” researchers said. “These hurtful experiences cause great dissonance for women.”
Overall, 2024 closed with 28% of U.S. adults attending church weekly. But early 2025 shows signs of promise with as many as 32% of adults attending church weekly, researchers said.
Natasha:
What other trends did they find?
Warren:
— Weekly church volunteering, at 24% of U.S. adults, surpassed pre-COVID 2019 levels of 18%, with Gen Z and Millennials leading the efforts.
— 65% of U.S. adults, including Christians and non-Christians, believe the church is still relevant in today’s world.
— Most adult church goers actively seek relational connections at church, engaging in conversation before or after church with a pastor (57%), other attendees (53%), or church staff (50%).
— Spiritual encounters make church meaningful, Christians said.
Natasha:
Who is in our Ministry Spotlight this week?
Warren:
This month, Living Stream Ministry’s Donor Confidence Score dropped 20 points. The organization now has a rating of 36 “Withhold Giving,” and is in the bottom 40% for financial efficiency among other ministries in the Christian Growth sector.
Natasha:
According to its website, Living Stream Ministry (LSM) “is a non-profit corporation that is primarily dedicated to the publication of the ministry of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee.”
Warren:
Watchman Nee was an evangelist and church planter in China during the 20th Century. When the Communist Party took over in the 1950s he was arrested and sentenced to 15 years in prison where he later died. He wrote numerous books, including the bestseller “The Normal Christian Life.”
During his ministry, Nee worked with another evangelist named Witness Lee whose work eventually led him to Taiwan and later to California. He founded Stream Publishers in 1965, which would become Living Stream Ministry.
Natasha:
Today, Living Stream Ministry continues to operate out of Anaheim, California.
Warren:
In 2023, the organization had $21 million in revenue—almost double its revenue from 2020, which was $11.7 million.
According to its website, LSM does not “solicit donations or contributions.” The organization does sell books, audio books, CDs and ebooks on its site. In addition, it hosts numerous conferences throughout the year.
While its revenue in 2023 was $21 million, its expenses were just $16.8 million. Its General and Admin costs were 20%, compared with its sector median of 12%. At least eight staff members make six-figure salaries.
LSM has $112.2 million in net assets and it is not a member of the ECFA.
The organization did not respond to multiple requests for comment.
Natasha:
More than 2 billion people do not have easy access to clean water at their homes—that, according to the United Nations. Last Saturday was World Water Day, so in our Ministries Making a Difference column this week, we look at ministries that are providing clean water to people in water-crisis areas around the world—while also introducing them to the Living Water.
Warren:
Filter of Hope facilitates missions trips that are “part humanitarian project and part mission trip.” This month, college Cru groups and others are taking advantage of spring break to travel around the world delivering water filters in water-crisis countries like the Dominican Republic, Panama, Belize, Ecuador, and Cuba, and sharing the gospel with the people who receive them. In Cuba, a group from App State Cru gave out 110 water filters and witnessed to 163 people for the first time. Filter of Hope is one of MinistryWatch’s Shining Lights—they have 5 stars, an “A” transparency grade, and a donor confidence score of 100.
Kinship United has been part of a water project facilitating peace in West Pokot in Kenya. Amidst four tribes at war, the ministry drilled 450 feet into the desert, and the well now pumps out clean water in each of those four directions. It is helping to build a community building at the same site to share about Christ and build unity where there has been conflict. Kinship United is also a Shining Light, with 5 stars, an “A” transparency grade, and a donor confidence score of 100.
Thirty-five percent of people in Honduras lack access to safe water, according to Water Mission. They are building a solar-powered safe water project in Republica Alemania, where families currently have to buy bottled water for drinking and cooking—money that could otherwise be used to buy food. The project is slated for completion this summer. Water Mission has 3 stars, an “A” transparency grade in the MinistryWatch database, and donor confidence score of 100.
Last year, Nazarene Compassionate Ministries (NCM) helped drill two water wells in Malawi as part of its Water, Sanitation, Hygiene initiative (WASH). Two pastors shared about how those wells are impacting their communities, providing health, dignity, and even credibility. NCM is another MinistryWatch Shining Light, with 5 stars, an “A” transparency grade, and a donor confidence score of 100.
Natasha:
Warren, any final thoughts before we go?
Warren:
Warren Ad-Lib March Recurring Donor Appeal.
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Natasha:
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Kim Roberts, Bob Smietana, Shannon Cuthrell, Diana Chandler, Brittany Smith, and Christina Darnell.
A special thanks to Baptist Press for contributing material for this week’s podcast.
I’m Natasha Cowden, coming to you from Denver, Colorado.
Warren:
And I’m Warren Smith, in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Natasha:
You’ve been listening to the MinistryWatch podcast. Until next time, may God bless you.
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