Ep. 384: Dave Ramsey, Andrew Wommack, Gordon College
On today’s program, new life breathed into a lawsuit against Dave Ramsey’s company. A former employee claims he was fired for not sharing Ramsey’s religious beliefs on how to handle the COVID-19 pandemic. We’ll take a look at the court’s latest ruling in the case.
And, a Southern Baptist pastor in Florida faces a minimum sentence of life in prison without parole over harrowing child abuse allegations—but new state laws also mean the death penalty is on the table.
Also, Andrew Wommack announces plans to pass the baton to new leadership at Charis Bible College in Colorado.
But first, Gordon College was denied forgiveness on $7 million in COVID-era Paycheck Protection Program loans. It submitted an appeal, but in July a judge dismissed most of the college’s claims.
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Kim Roberts, Bob Smietana, Yonat Shimron, Kathryn Post, Tony Mator, Jessica Eturralde, Shannon Cuthrell, and Brittany Smith.
Until next time, may God bless you.
FIRST SEGMENT
Warren:
Hello everybody. I’m Warren Smith, coming to you from Charlotte, North Carolina.
Natasha:
And I’m Natasha Cowden, coming to you from Denver, Colorado. And we’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast.
Warren:
On today’s program, new life breathed into a lawsuit against Dave Ramsey’s company. A former employee claims he was fired for not sharing Ramsey’s religious beliefs on how to handle the COVID-19 pandemic. We’ll take a look at the court’s latest ruling in the case.
And, a Southern Baptist pastor in Florida faces a minimum sentence of life in prison without parole over harrowing child abuse allegations—but new state laws also mean the death penalty is on the table.
Also, Andrew Wommack announces plans to pass the baton to new leadership at Charis Bible College in Colorado.
Natasha:
But first, Gordon College was denied forgiveness on $7 million in COVID-era Paycheck Protection Program loans. It submitted an appeal, but in July a judge dismissed most of the college’s claims.
Warren:
Like many colleges and organizations in 2020, Gordon College received COVID relief funds as part of the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP). But when the Massachusetts-based college applied for forgiveness, the Small Business Administration (SBA) denied its request on the $7 million loan.
Gordon then sued the SBA for violating its free exercise of religion, equal protection, and due process rights, along with violations of the Administrative Procedure Act.
U.S. District Judge Beryl Howell in the District of Columbia dismissed most of the claims brought by Gordon College in a memorandum opinion issued in late July.
In her opinion, Howell said the SBA had sought follow-up documentation from Gordon College because the “employee count” was “indicative of concern.”
Natasha:
How so?
Warren:
In April 2020, Gordon submitted its PPP application with 495.67 employees listed. It reached this number using the full-time equivalent method, which counts part-time employees as a fraction of an employee.
A spokesperson for the college told MinistryWatch. “Gordon College followed the procedures given at the time of the loan application and most importantly, used these funds completely in the manner in which they were presented by the SBA: to avoid layoffs of employees and continue to provide them with a paycheck even though the College was forced to shut down operations for months in 2020,”
Natasha:
So what’s the issue?
Warren:
The court recited that in later documents, the school “self-reported” 639 employees at the Massachusetts campus, which exceeded the maximum count of 500 employees allowed under the program.
Gordon College told MinistryWatch that when it applied for loan forgiveness in July 2021, the SBA had changed its language to “headcount” methodology rather than the full-time equivalent method. “This change by the SBA of the method of reporting employees is the basis for this dispute,”
The college brought multiple claims to the court.
The judge dismissed all claims against the SBA.
In the MinistryWatch database, Gordon College has a two-star financial efficiency rating, an A transparency grade, and a donor confidence score of 82.
Natasha:
We’ll stay in the courthouse for the next story concerning a new ruling against Dave Ramsey’s Company.
Warren:
A federal appeals court has ruled in favor of a former employee who claimed Ramsey Solutions, the company run by Christian personal finance guru Dave Ramsey, discriminated against him during the COVID-19 pandemic.
Brad Amos, a former video editor at the Franklin, Tennessee-based company, sued Ramsey Solutions in 2021, saying he was fired for not agreeing with Ramsey’s faith-based views about how to respond to the pandemic.
Natasha:
Can you explain what he means by that?
Warren:
During the pandemic, Dave Ramsey downplayed the risk of COVID-19, referred to those who wear masks as “wusses,” barred employees from working at home and said his company would be guided by faith not fear. Amos’ attorneys alleged that at the Lampo Group — which does business as Ramsey Solutions — wearing a mask or social distancing was seen as “against the will of God,” and employees were required to agree with Ramsey’s beliefs about the pandemic.
Attorneys for Amos also claimed that his faith, including Amos’ belief in the so-called Golden Rule — doing unto others as you would have them do unto you — required him to mask, social distance and comply with other CDC recommendations during the pandemic.
His insistence on doing so, Amos alleged, led to his firing.
Natasha:
In December, a U.S. District Court had dismissed both the discrimination and fraud claims before they went to trial, saying Amos had failed to show he was discriminated against. But now there’s a new ruling
Warren:
On Thursday (Aug. 8), the Sixth Circuit ruled that the district court had erred in dismissing Amos’ discrimination claim. The court ruled that federal law protects employees from discrimination based on “religious non-conformity” — also known as reverse discrimination, or requiring an employee to follow a religious belief or practice.
The Sixth Circuit Court also ruled that a belief in the Golden Rule qualified as a religious claim and was protected from discrimination.
The case will now return to the lower district court for trial.
Ramsey Solutions did not respond to a request for comment.
Natasha:
Next, NC Megachurch Pastor Divorces Wife
Warren:
Gilbert Andre Thompson Jr., pastor of megachurch World Overcomers Christian Church in Durham, N.C., has divorced his wife of 33 years. The divorce was final on July 1.
Now, under normal circumstances we would not report the divorce of a pastor. But this situation is a bit different. As part of the divorce proceedings, the assets of Pastor Andy Thompson, as he is known, came to light.
Natasha:
What did that reveal?
Warren:
He apparently lives in a home valued at $2.85 million. The real estate website Zillow shows the home in Mebane, N.C., is over 10,000 square feet with four bedrooms and six bathrooms, a pool, a hot tub, and a gym.
County property records list the owner as Restore Community Development Corporation, a North Carolina non-profit corporation.
Natasha:
There’s quite a list as the couple divvies up the assets
Warren:
Andy Thompson will pay his ex-wife $12,000 per month in alimony for nine years.
Natasha:
The couple had four children together, all of whom are now adults.
Warren:
Andy Thompson founded World Overcomers Christian Church in 2003. It claims over 15,000 members. According to his biography on the church website, Thompson authored a book titled “Real Love Marriage,” which it claims was an “impactful, life-changing tool that [is] redefining marriage and family dynamics in the modern era.”
He also founded the Overcomers Christian Fellowship to influence and minister to other church pastors.
Natasha:
Warren, let’s take a quick break. When we return, nearly 12-hundred Southern Baptist churches in North Carolina participate in a week of service.
I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and we’ll have that story and much more, after this short break.
BREAK
SECOND SEGMENT
Natasha:
Welcome back. I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch podcast.
Next, the story we promised before the break. Many churches use summer for international missions work—but North Carolina Southern Baptists envisioned something closer to home.
Warren:
A total of 1,169 mostly Southern Baptist churches in 92 of North Carolina’s 100 counties participated in the ServeNC effort, fielding volunteers for a week of service helping vulnerable populations, including homeless people, orphans, prisoners, refugees and the elderly.
Todd Unzicker, executive director-treasurer of the Baptist State Convention said “In my almost 20 years of being a Christian, I can’t remember a time that a group of churches this large was doing something like this together,”
Natasha:
What kind of work did they accomplish?
Warren:
In Winston-Salem, Calvary Baptist Church packed 750 school backpacks. First Baptist Church of Raeford built a wheelchair ramp for a couple in the community. Friendship Southern Baptist Church in Concord put on a “Senior Prom Night” at a local nursing home. Salem Baptist Church in Dobson stocked shelves and bagged groceries at a local food pantry.
Natasha:
What’s our next story?
Warren:
In 2022, Mark Rivera, a former Anglican lay minister, was convicted of felony child sexual assault three years after a young girl told her mother that he had abused her. Months later, he pled guilty to felony sexual assault, nearly three years after his neighbor reported that Rivera had raped her.
From the first, his survivors said, authorities in the Anglican Church in North America’s Upper Midwest Diocese had been slow to respond, and casual about informing their fellow church members. several of Rivera’s victims went public about the obstacles they faced in reporting Rivera’s misconduct, and, ever since, a group of ACNA members has been clamoring for the denomination to revise its abuse prevention protocols.
Natasha:
What’s the latest?
Warren:
At its June meeting in Latrobe, Pennsylvania, the denomination’s governing bodies added two sections to church bylaws about safeguarding and reporting misconduct. A long-awaited overhaul of Title IV, the bylaws’ protocol for church discipline, is still reportedly in the works.
Natasha:
What are the new updates?
Warren:
They are minimum requirements that the dioceses must adopt by the end of 2025 in their misconduct protocols. They include the appointment of report receivers, the creation of a reports investigation committee, requirements that pastoral care be provided to the reporting party and clergy accused of misconduct and guidelines for dealing with reports of lay misconduct.
The canonical changes will go into effect in September.
Natasha:
Our next story is somewhat bizarre.
Warren:
In late July, the congregation of Calvary Chapel Cary in Apex, North Carolina, was shocked to discover its own church listed for sale online for $11.5 million with a pending buyer. Then, as mysteriously as it appeared, the listing was canceled.
Less than a week later, fresh from a five-month sabbatical, Pastor Rodney Finch resigned as senior pastor. Concluding a tumultuous tenure marred by multiple scandals, a slew of staff resignations, a shrinking congregation, and an investigation by the leadership council of the Calvary Chapel Association.
Natasha:
Tell us more about the church sale.
Warren:
Finch confessed to the church that he had secretly conspired with the board of elders as far back as January to find a buyer for the church building and nearby parking lot, keeping it secret until a deal was brokered. But before he could break the news the way he wanted to, the congregation found out.
The reason for the sale, he said, was that he had planned to resign in 2025 and did not think the church could survive financially without him unless it moved to a cheaper location. He also suggested he had already decided during his sabbatical to resign early—not because of the scandal but in order for the other pastors to “set their plan in motion” and “begin to congeal as a group.”
Natasha:
How’d the congregation feel about all this?
Warren:
Though the church intends to continue with the plan to sell and move, Finch confessed during his resignation speech that he was wrong to keep it secret. And though the board was complicit in the secrecy, no one else offered resignations.
Natasha:
How did the church get to this point?
Warren:
Finch’s ability to remain in the pulpit for about 30 years despite many complaints against him is, in part, due to the structure of the Calvary Chapel Association and its “Moses model” of leadership, which grants senior pastors enormous power and autonomy over their churches.
Some argue that unless that power is curbed, misbehaving pastors will continue to be unaccountable.
Natasha:
In our next story, a pastor could receive the death penalty.
Warren:
Jonathan Elwing, 43, a pastor from Palmetto, Florida, is facing a minimum sentence of life without parole over harrowing child rape allegations. However, due to an updated Florida death penalty law, he could receive capital punishment if convicted.
According to the Manatee County Sheriff’s Office, police initially charged the father of four with four counts of possessing child pornography for using cryptocurrency to buy explicit images of children from the dark web. Detectives began investigating Elwing after a crypto-currency company tipped them about the purchases.
Nearly a month later, police found enough material to charge Elwing with over 20 counts of possession of child pornography.
Natasha:
What church was Elwing a part of?
Warren:
For five years, Elwing has been the senior pastor at Palm View First Baptist Church in Palmetto, Florida. Elwing resigned from Palm View shortly before his arrest.
Palm View FBC is affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC), which has struggled to properly resolve issues that have arisen from a scathing 2019 report accusing the convention of mishandling sexual assault cases.
Elwing has reportedly opposed SBC reforms against sexual abuse, including the recommendation by the SBC’s Abuse Reform Implementation Task Force (ARITF) to pay Guidepost Solutions to maintain a website of people credibly accused of sexual abuse in the SBC.
Natasha:
What’s next in this case?
Warren:
A grand jury indicted Elwing on July 10 for sexual battery of a child. He faces a minimum sentence of life without parole if convicted, but prosecutors could also press for the death penalty under a 2023 Florida law that allows for the ultimate sentence for sexual battery of a child under the age of 12. Juries in Florida need just eight of the 12 to agree to execution.
Elwing remains in custody at the Manatee County Jail. The investigation is ongoing.
Natasha:
Warren, we’re going to take another break. When we return, our lightning round of ministry news of the week.
I’m Natasha Cowden, with my co-host Warren Smith. More in a moment.
BREAK
THIRD SEGMENT
Natasha:
Welcome back. I’m Natasha Cowden, with my co-host Warren Smith and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch Podcast.
Warren, we like to use this last segment as a sort of lightning round of shorter news briefs.
What’s up first?
Warren:
Charis Bible College, part of Andrew Wommack Ministries, will begin transitioning to new leaders.
Andrew Wommack,75, founded the college 30 years ago, and is now planning for his successors, Mike and Carrie Pickett, to take the leadership reins.
The Picketts are both currently executive vice presidents at the Charis Bible College main campus in Woodland Park, Colorado.
Although Wommack is not stepping down nor retiring, the transition of leadership to the Picketts will be accelerated.
Carrie Pickett graduated from Charis Bible College in 1999. She and Mike Pickett served as full-time missionaries in Russia for 16 years.
Charis Bible College offers an unaccredited three-year program. In year three, they develop skills in one of seven schools: Christian ministry, global training, worship, business, practical government, leadership, and film and production.
In the MinistryWatch database, Andrew Wommack Ministries has a D transparency grade and a low donor confidence score of 42. Furthermore, “this ministry has a negative net worth, making it impossible to assign it a valid financial efficiency rating.”
Natasha:
What’s next?
Warren:
Christian broadcasting giant Salem Media Group released its second-quarter results this week with $60.6 million in revenue, down 7.7% year-over-year. However, its net income grew 132% to $2.3 million, reversing its $7 million loss during the same period last year.
Salem’s stock (OTC: SALM) dropped by about 11% on Tuesday afternoon after the earnings release. It’s currently trading at around $0.22 as of this writing.
Only one operating segment achieved gains in the second quarter. Digital media revenue—generated by Salem’s online content for Christian, political, investing, retirement, streaming, and other audiences—increased by 10% year-over-year to $11.9 million due to digital subscription revenue from the DayTradeSPY and Gilder financial newsletters.
Salem’s core broadcast business fell by 5.2% due to a nearly $2 million decline in local spot advertising, excluding political ads.
However, expenses in Salem’s digital media operations grew 2.2%, including advertising and promotions from email marketing campaigns.
Natasha:
Who is in our Ministry Spotlight this week?
Warren:
Recently, Operation Underground Railroad (OUR)’s Donor Confidence Score fell to a 50, placing it in the “Give with Caution” category.
OUR, an anti-trafficking group, has seen significant upheaval over the last few years. In 2021, MinistryWatch began looking at the organization’s exaggerated rescue claims, and later at its increased donations and large net asset holdings.
In July 2023, its founder, Tim Ballard, quietly left the organization before being accused of sexual assault a few months later by 5 former OUR workers. In February 2024, Tammy Lee became the organization’s new CEO.
According to OUR’s 2023 Form 990, Ballard still received a salary of $601,379. From 2022 to 2023, the organization’s overall revenue jumped from $29.3 million to $50.4 million—but its 2023 expenses were more than $53 million. In addition, it has $56.3 million in net assets, ranking it 40 out of 40 for Resource Allocation in the Advocacy Sector.
Natasha:
Warren, any final thoughts before we go?
Warren:
Webinar – How To Read A Form 990.
Travel to Greenville, SC and Atlanta, GA.
AI Text to Audio experiment on podcast.
Natasha:
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Kim Roberts, Bob Smietana, Yonat Shimron, Kathryn Post, Tony Mator, Jessica Eturralde, Shannon Cuthrell, and Brittany Smith.
I’m Natasha Cowden, in Denver, Colorado.
Warren:
And I’m Warren Smith in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Natasha:
You’ve been listening to the MinistryWatch podcast. Until next time, may God bless you.
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: RSS
