Ep. 472: Gateway Church, Doug Wilson’s Christ Church, Fuller Seminary
On today’s program, Gateway Church has named a new senior pastor. The appointment comes a year after child sexual abuse accusations surfaced against founding pastor Robert Morris. We’ll have details.
And, the Department of Justice is suing a city in Idaho for discriminating against Christ the Redeemer Church—a church plant of Doug Wilson’s Christ Church. The church has been seeking a permit to meet in an old bank building—a request the city has denied. We’ll take a look.
Plus, Gereld Duane Rollins—who sued SBC legend Paul Pressler for sexual abuse—has died. His lawsuit sparked a Southern Baptist abuse reckoning.
But first, Fuller Seminary reaffirms its stance on biblical sexuality. The board of Fuller, a leading evangelical seminary voted to affirm its long-standing stance on biblical marriage and human sexuality during its May meeting. But an email to supporters May 22 caused confusion. The email defined the biblical and historical understanding of biblical sexuality as “a union between a man and a woman and sexual intimacy within the context of that union.” But in the same email, the seminary’s president also acknowledged that some “faithful” Christian denominations “have come to affirm other covenantal forms of relationship,” an unusual stance for an evangelical seminary.
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Bob Smietana, Kim Roberts, and Laura Erlanson.
A special thanks to Baptist Press for contributing material for this week’s podcast.
Until next time, may God bless you.
MANUSCRIPT:
FIRST SEGMENT
Warren:
Hello everybody. I’m Warren Smith, coming to you this week from Charlotte, North Carolina.
Natasha:
And I’m Natasha Cowden, coming to you from Denver, Colorado, and we’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast.
Warren:
On today’s program, Gateway Church has named a new senior pastor. The appointment comes a year after child sexual abuse accusations surfaced against founding pastor Robert Morris. We’ll have details.
And, the Department of Justice is suing a city in Idaho for discriminating against Christ the Redeemer Church—a church plant of Doug Wilson’s Christ Church. The church has been seeking a permit to meet in an old bank building—a request the city has denied. We’ll take a look.
Plus, Gereld Duane Rollins—who sued SBC legend Paul Pressler for sexual abuse—has died. His lawsuit sparked a Southern Baptist abuse reckoning.
Natasha:
But first, Fuller Seminary reaffirms its stance on biblical sexuality.
Warren:
The board of Fuller, a leading evangelical seminary voted to affirm its long-standing stance on biblical marriage and human sexuality during its May meeting.
In an email to supporters May 22, Fuller caused confusion. The email defined the biblical and historical understanding of biblical sexuality as “a union between a man and a woman and sexual intimacy within the context of that union.”
But in the same email, the seminary’s president also acknowledged that some “faithful” Christian denominations “have come to affirm other covenantal forms of relationship,” an unusual stance for an evangelical seminary.
Natasha:
The acknowledgment that denominations can disagree on the issue and remain faithful led to an online firestorm about whether married gay students who belong to so-called “affirming” denominations might be allowed at the school. Or what will happen to faculty who affirm same-sex marriage.
Warren:
When asked how the comments about affirming Christians might affect the seminary’s ban on LBGTQ relationships for students, a spokesperson confirmed there was no official change to policy.
“The board has made no changes to Fuller’s Community Standards, which all students commit to adhere to upon enrollment, and which states Fuller’s belief that ‘sexual union must be reserved for marriage, which is the covenant union between one man and one woman,” the school’s media contact wrote in an email to RNS.
The school’s current community standards – which apply to students, faculty and staff — also state that “sexual abstinence is required for the unmarried.”
“The seminary believes premarital, extramarital, and homosexual forms of explicit sexual conduct to be inconsistent with the teaching of Scripture,” according to the community standards.
In the email update, Goatley wrote that he would be “working with the Board of Trustees, the administration, and the faculty to develop guidelines to continue living out our commitments.”
Natasha:
Next, Gateway Church Names a New Senior Pastor.
Warren:
The appointment comes after the resignation of founding pastor Robert Morris, who resigned last summer after Cindy Clemishire came forward with allegations that he had sexually abused her in the late 1980s when she was 12 years old.
Morris has since been indicted by a grand jury in Oklahoma. Morris and Gateway are also currently engaged in a legal battle over retirement benefits.
Natasha:
So who will take the lead?
Warren:
The congregation was informed on Sunday, May 25 that the new pastors are Daniel and Tammie Floyd. They founded Lifepoint Church in Fredericksburg, Virginia, 20 years ago, and it has grown to include five campuses across the state.
The Floyds said they plan to be at Gateway this coming weekend — May 31 and June 1.
Daniel Floyd has a doctorate in ministry from Southeastern University and two master’s degrees from Liberty Theological Seminary. His wife, Tammie, has a bachelor’s in education from Liberty University.
Natasha:
Next, news from the Vineyard denomination.
Warren:
Vineyard USA has threatened that it will disassociate with the Duluth Vineyard congregation if certain matters between the two are not resolved by August 15.
In a letter dated April 23, Super Regional Leader of Vineyard USA John Elmer expressed his concern with a “breakdown of trust and communication” between the national group and the local congregation.
Natasha:
What happened?
Warren:
The letter cites an inquiry into leadership behavior that is being conducted by Duluth Vineyard.
According to an update on the Duluth Vineyard website, an independent investigation of interim pastor John Kliewer was conducted after the national group raised concerns that his actions were “unilateral, authoritarian, controlling, unreasonable, intimidating, and seething/burning with anger.”
The church said Kliewer took a leave of absence during the investigation in order to “ensure transparency.” The investigation cleared Kliewer of the misconduct allegations, but did acknowledge that he might benefit from “thoughtful discussions and coaching.”
Kliewer plans to take an extended leave because of the toll this fight has had on him.
Natasha:
In February, Kliewer publicly criticized Vineyard USA for its handling of accusations against former Duluth Vineyard leaders Michael and Brenda Gatlin, who resigned in 2023 amidst accusations that they had known about the alleged sexual abuse and leadership misconduct by their son, a former pastoral assistant at the church, but chose not to act.
Warren:
In November 2024, the Gatlins’ son, Jackson, entered into a plea agreement for the charges under which he will serve 13 years in prison, the Duluth News Tribune reported.
Kliewer created a list of 20 actions he believes Vineyard USA must take to address abuse, including public and private apologies, establishing clear consequences for covering up abuse, and structural reforms to the Vineyard USA governance.
Natasha:
A January 27 letter by Duluth Vineyard in Ann Arbor, Mich., declared the church board “unanimously voted to immediately suspend all financial support to Vineyard USA through the 3% contribution required by the trademark agreement.”
Warren:
The letter goes on to demand the resignation of the Vineyard USA national director, disbanding of the current board of directors, and implementation of GRACE and Guidepost recommendations. The Duluth church voted to support those same demands in February.
Natasha:
Warren, let’s take a quick break. When we return, recent Trump administration proposals could have a chilling effect on private foundations and charitable organizations.
MinistryWatch reached out to several private foundations and donor-advised funds that support Christian causes to see if they plan to increase their giving to make up for lost federal funding.
I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and we’ll have that story and much more, after this short break.
BREAK
SECOND SEGMENT
Natasha:
Welcome back. I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch podcast.
Next, the story we promised before the break.
Warren:
In 2023, foundation giving totaled over $103.5 billion, according to the National Philanthropic Trust, making them critical to the charitable work happening in the United States and around the world.
Several recent Trump administration and Congressional policies and proposals could have a chilling effect on private foundations and charitable organizations.
The House budget reconciliation bill—dubbed the “One, Big, Beautiful Bill”—that passed in the House last week and now moves to the Senate includes a proposed tax increase on the investment income earned by private foundations.
Natasha:
According to the bill, the tax rate would range from 1.39% for foundations with assets below $50 million to 10% for foundations with $5 billion or more in assets.
Warren:
Section 110011 of the bill would also put new limits on the charitable contributions of high-income taxpayers and corporations, thus disincentivizing charitable giving.
The National Council of Nonprofits opposes the legislation, saying some of the bill’s provisions “divert scarce resources away from essential services, undermine the ability of charitable nonprofit organizations to meet needs in their communities, and put greater strain on government.”
Natasha:
The Trump administration is also considering an executive order that would ban charitable organizations from issuing grants to groups in foreign countries.
Warren:
This would likely have a significant impact on religious groups and foundations that send money overseas for disaster relief and development efforts.
For example, World Vision International sent more than $70 million in grants to Ukraine, $11 million to Mexico, and $25 million to Colombia in 2023.
Natasha:
If the bill is passed, how will that impact foundations & charities?
Warren:
James Whitford, CEO of True Charity, believes private foundations and charities should step in and meet the needs where the government is reducing its giving.
Research has shown that government funding of work that charities do crowds out private foundation funding, Whitford said. Additionally, government funding also comes with strings attached that impede the ability to conduct effective compassionate ministry and can lead to a cycle of dependency, he said.
While government involvement has grown every year, Whitford welcomes the opportunity for local citizens, foundations, and ministries to take the reins of charitable work and fill gaps that may be left when government leaves the arena.
Natasha:
MinistryWatch reached out to several private foundations and donor-advised funds that support Christian causes to see if they plan to increase their giving to make up for lost federal funding.
Warren:
That’s right. Our reporter Kim Roberts reached out to the Tyndale House Foundation, a part of Tyndale House Ministries, is planning to increase its giving to some of its charitable partners.
According to its most recent Form 990, Tyndale House Ministries gave about $4.5 million in grants in its Fiscal Year 2023 and about $5.8 million the prior year.
The Lilly Endowment didn’t reveal whether it has plans to increase giving to charitable causes that may have lost federal funding.
The Lilly Endowment has over $45 billion in assets and gave about $1.55 billion in grants in 2023.
The Christian Community Foundation, also known as Waterstone, is not an endowed private foundation, but is a donor-advised fund whose managed assets have grown from about $1.3 billion in 2024 to about $2 billion this year.
Waterstone’s Senior Gift Strategist Stephanie Hoff told MinistryWatch that donors who have funds with them don’t hold on to their funds. She said that funds are being donated at a rate of about 70-80% with about $3 million being distributed weekly — an increase from about $2 million per week in 2024.
Natasha:
MinistryWatch calculated the distributions of other Christian foundations in 2023 by dividing the qualifying distributions by the noncharitable-use assets listed on the foundations Form 990-PF.
Warren:
- The Arthur DeMoss Foundation distributed the largest percentage — 21% — or nearly $8.5 million of its $40.5 million in assets.
- First Fruit, a foundation to support “leaders and organizations working among the poorest countries of the Majority World,” gave 17% — $3.6 million — of its assets in grants in 2023.
- The Maclellan Foundation in Chattanooga had the third highest distribution rate of the foundations we analyzed, giving about 10% — $27.4 million — of its assets in 2023.
- The Stewardship Foundation and Crowell Trust hovered right around the required 5% distribution requirement.
Natasha:
Next, another municipality is being accused of discriminating against a church who wanted to locate its services in a downtown area.
Warren:
The U.S. Justice Department has filed a lawsuit against the City of Troy, Idaho, — a small town with a population of about 1,000 — seeking injunctive relief to keep the city from discriminating against a church plant of Christ Church – that’s the church Doug Wilson founded. The DOJ says the city is in violation of the Religions Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act (RLUIPA).
RLUIPA is a federal law meant to guard religious institutions from “unduly burdensome, unequal, or discriminatory land use regulations.”
It’s unusual for the Department of Justice to intervene in such local cases, so we’ll keep an eye on this story and bring you updates as they occur.
Natasha:
We’ve got another church and city related story
Warren:
The future of a proposed homeless shelter at a New Jersey church — and the future of the church itself — remains unclear after a zoning board meeting ended without a vote.
Since October, Christ Episcopal Church in Toms River, New Jersey, has sought permission from the town’s zoning board to open a 17-bed shelter in a building on the congregation’s property.
But the project has been met with resistance from both neighbors and the mayor, and it remains stalled after months of public comment.
Natasha:
The dispute over the shelter made national headlines last month after the Toms River Township Council passed a first vote on a motion to take the church’s property — and several other properties — by eminent domain. Township designs show plans to build a park on the site, including pickleball courts.
Warren:
The township council was scheduled to take a second vote on the eminent domain proposal next week, but that vote was rescheduled until the end of July. Mayor Daniel Rodrick told Religion News Service in April that he hopes to purchase the church property, rather than taking the property by eminent domain in court.
More than 7,500 people have signed a change.org petition opposing the eminent domain motion. A GoFundMe campaign for the church’s legal fees has raised over $18,000 so far.
Established in 1865, Christ Church draws about 150 people to services and hosts a variety of community outreaches, including a program run by the Affordable Housing Alliance nonprofit. The church and the alliance are working together on the proposed shelter.
Natasha:
Warren, we’re going to take another break. When we return, our lightning round of ministry news of the week.
I’m Natasha Cowden, with my co-host Warren Smith. More in a moment.
BREAK
THIRD SEGMENT
Natasha:
Welcome back. I’m Natasha Cowden, with my co-host Warren Smith and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch Podcast.
Warren, we like to use this last segment as a sort of lightning round of shorter news briefs.
This week, we’re hitting on news in the SBC. What’s up first?
Warren:
Gareld Duane Rollins, whose lawsuit accusing a legendary Southern Baptist leader of abuse sparked a crisis in the nation’s largest Protestant denomination, died Friday (May 23).
News of Rollins’ death was first made public by journalist Robert Downen, who had covered Rollins’ lawsuit against Texas judge Paul Pressler, an influential Southern Baptist Convention lay leader, for years.
Natasha:
Downen, a senior writer for Texas Monthly, said Rollins, who had long suffered from health issues and was in his late 50s, had been in hospice care the last time the two had talked. Still, his death came as a shock.
Warren:
Downen said Rollins was a person of deep faith, which sustained his long battle to recover from abuse. His story was also complicated — Rollins had dealt with addiction for years and had served time in prison, and few people believed his story of abuse at the hands of a powerful faith leader.
Rollins’ lawsuit inspired Downen and other reporters from the Houston Chronicle and San Antonio Express-News to launch “Abuse of Faith,” an investigation that found hundreds of cases of abuse in the SBC and opened the door for the denomination’s 2022 Guidepost report, which found that SBC leaders had tried to downplay the severity of abuse in the SBC for years — and had mistreated survivors who came forward.
That report led to a series of reforms meant to address abuse in the SBC, and to SBC leaders apologizing to abuse survivors.
Natasha:
Next, A group of 10 former Southern Baptist Convention presidents have weighed in on a debate over the denomination’s controversial ethics and public policy arm.
Warren:
In an open letter, the 10 former presidents — some of whom have been critics of the SBC’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission — acknowledged the agency has been controversial and can do better. But, they said, that’s no reason to shut the ERLC down.
“Every entity — including the ERLC — should be open to critique and committed to improvement,” the presidents wrote. “But there is a difference between refinement and eradication. A sledgehammer is not the tool for adjusting a mirror.”
Natasha:
Critics of the ERLC — who say the ERLC is out of touch with the beliefs of local church members and lacks close ties to the Trump administration — have engaged in an online public relations war over the agency’s reputation and effectiveness.
Warren:
The online rhetoric over the ERLC has heated up as the 2025 SBC annual meeting — set for June 8-11 in Dallas — draws nearer.
In their letter, the ex-presidents say they have listened to the ERLC’s critics — and, while some of the former presidents share their concerns, they do not believe those concerns warrant shutting down the agency.
The SBC presidents argued that reforming the ERLC is a better outcome than abolishing it. “If the goal is reform, then we urge Southern Baptists to use the means already available — electing presidents, speaking with trustees, and working through the process in good faith,” wrote the SBC presidents.
Natasha:
Next an overview on giving.
Warren:
There may be more than one reason Generation X is dubbed the Forgotten Generation. According to a Giving USA survey, they are being surpassed by their younger counterparts—Millennials—when it comes to charitable giving. However, Baby Boomers surpass everyone.
While Millennial donors had already surpassed Gen X in terms of giving by 2021, the margin has continued to grow. In 2024, millennial donors gave $1,616 annually on average while Gen X gave just $1,371.
The oldest generation included in the survey, Baby Boomers, contributed far more than the others—an annual average of $3,256, twice the rate of the second-place millennials. The youngest generation included in the workforce, Gen Z, donated an annual average of $867.
Natasha:
Warren, any final thoughts before we go?
Warren:
Warren Ad-Lib MAY Recurring Donor Appeal.
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Natasha:
The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Bob Smietana, Kim Roberts, and Laura Erlanson.
A special thanks to Baptist Press for contributing material for this week’s podcast.
I’m Natasha Cowden, coming to you from Denver, Colorado.
Warren:
And I’m Warren Smith, in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Natasha:
You’ve been listening to the MinistryWatch podcast. Until next time, may God bless you.
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